Go to footer

Skip to content


edit

Anarchism: What it is and what it is not.

Moderators: Yarrow, Yuda, Canteloupe


edit

Postby cbn620 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:50 pm

edit
Last edited by cbn620 on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
cbn620
Swivel-Hips
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:26 pm


Postby Marja » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:29 pm

I've been here for some time, although I'm starting a new account.

I don't see anything archistic (un-anarchistic) about your ideas. Of course you may flesh them out in various debates, but I've noticed how many anarchists get dead set on gun control or public schools or the like.

Sometimes, yes, one state policy limits the damage that another state policy inflicts. So minimum wages limit the damage that Taft-Hartley inflicts (in terms of poverty) but aggravate the damage that it inflicts (in terms of union-busting). But gun control and public schools simply aggravate the damage that other state policies inflict (e.g. if guns were more common and less carefully tracked, the war on drugs could never have got going).
Marja
Denizen
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:27 pm


Postby birthday pony » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:55 pm

Ownership:
Proudhon had a nice definition of possession which i pretty much take to heart. Basically you own what is in your possession. If you live on land you can use it for whatever, but when you leave it's not yours, and if others live on it, it is theirs too.

That's oversimplified, but whatever.

Religion:
There's Christian Anarchism and other religious Anarchist thingies. Anarchists are against organized religion, not religious beliefs.

Hope I was of some help...
birthday pony
Denizen
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:19 pm
Location: Detroit, MI


Postby jesus » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:43 pm

Matthew 6:5-6

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret, and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
jesus
 


Postby Kiviuq » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:01 pm

(Don't know if you're still listening, but never mind...)

Ownership:
I think doing away with the concept of ownership is perfectly possible. You wouldn't be able to have 'your own' land or house or other items, so I think the best consequence of this is that people would share land and buildings and re-designate their uses to be more community-oriented. For pragmatic reasons, though, I think it's obvious that people should have beds, linen, clothes, toothbrushes, towels etc. that they keep private. But if everyone has their own copies of these things, they would have no reason to steal yours, so we still don't need to invoke the concept of possession.

Guns:
I don't understand how anyone could defend themselves without a right to bear arms.

They could use their fists!
As a pacifist, though, I would question why they should defend themselves by violent means in the first place.

a society cannot exist and defend itself from people who are corrupt without deterrent factors such as citizen owned weapons

I don't believe that people are simply inherently 'corrupt'. There must be reasons for them to attack people, and that's what we need to minimise. In an anarcho-communist society, they wouldn't need to attack you to steal from you, for example, since you don't even have any personal possessions, as above! Also, I question whether weapons actually deter people from attacking. If someone wants to attack with arms, I don't think they'd be deterred by the fact that their victims also have arms (I mean weapons).
Kiviuq
Swivel-Hips
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:20 am


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Francois Tremblay » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:59 pm

The issue of property rights is highly contentious amongst Anarchists, from one extreme ("we must eliminate all property rights!") to the other ("we must keep the statist property rights!").

I am a mutualist, and as such I believe that Anarchy should promote property rights based on use/occupation, as well as the reclaiming of the work spaces by the workers and the natural resources by the people. This is a "middle ground" position that I think has the most approval amongst Anarchists in general.
Left-mutualist, atheist, childfree
http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Francois Tremblay
Zen Master
 
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 pm


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Yarrow » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:42 am

just a few points:

when it comes to unsavoury behaviour, i think action needs to be taken on the cause and the symptom.

if i give my house to my daughter, what happens when people try to take it from her? this is why i think a legal structure is necessary, to keep the greedy from stealing everything and keep the power from the ower-hungry.
User avatar
Yarrow
Denizen
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:22 pm


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Victor » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:05 pm

I always get into arguments with people on gun control. Coming from an inner-city background, I see the negatives of the "right to bare arms". I've known people to get shot up over some beef that could have been squashed just by fist fighting. I am by no means a pacifist, and believe strongly in self-defense of anything that threatens the community.

I do understand, however, why people living in more rural areas support this amendment. There's a big difference in a redneck shooting deer, and one youth shooting another because he slept with his girl.

As far as taxes go, how are public services supposed to run without funding? However, the people should be able to decide collectively on where their taxes go.
Image
Podrán cortar todas las flores, pero no podrán detener la primavera
-Neruda
Victor
Swivel-Hips
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:18 pm


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Francois Tremblay » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:58 pm

Taxes are extortion.
Left-mutualist, atheist, childfree
http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Francois Tremblay
Zen Master
 
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 pm


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Victor » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:58 pm

Until wages and private property are abolished, taxes are paying for my/our education.
Image
Podrán cortar todas las flores, pero no podrán detener la primavera
-Neruda
Victor
Swivel-Hips
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:18 pm


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Francois Tremblay » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:53 pm

No tax paid for my education. I only went to private schools.

And taxation is still extortion, regardless of its professed "benefits" by statists who believe the monopoly of the State is eternal.

And, abolishing private property? Are you some kind of Marxist?
Left-mutualist, atheist, childfree
http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Francois Tremblay
Zen Master
 
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 pm


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Victor » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:30 pm

Francois Tremblay wrote:No tax paid for my education. I only went to private schools.

And taxation is still extortion, regardless of its professed "benefits" by statists who believe the monopoly of the State is eternal.

A lot of people can't afford to go to private schools. I went to public high school, which didn't come close to having the resources that were available to private schools. From things like paper to competent teachers.

Of course, being on an Anarchist forum I don't believe too strongly in the State, but I do, however, believe in providing necessities for the community.

And, abolishing private property? Are you some kind of Marxist?

I believe in economic and social equality. I am influenced somewhat by Marx's writings, but do not see them as flawless. I just started reading some works by Kropotkin and find them appealing. I just believe that if you "own" property that is vacant it should be utilized to shelter someone who owns nothing.

I just got home from a long shift at work and wrote this reply while trying to stay awake. It may be poorly written/organized.
Image
Podrán cortar todas las flores, pero no podrán detener la primavera
-Neruda
Victor
Swivel-Hips
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:18 pm


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Francois Tremblay » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:28 pm

So you believe in use/occupancy rules for property rights, but you're not against property. It makes no logical sense to be against property, you can't have a society without property (or possession, if that's how you prefer to call it).
Left-mutualist, atheist, childfree
http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Francois Tremblay
Zen Master
 
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 pm


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby ambi » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:40 pm

i believe that, ultimately, the idea of property will have to be abolished, just as the state will be abolished, and that without the state there is no property.

and when i say property, i primarily mean the land and the means of production.

and when i say 'means of production' i in no way wish to infer a connection to marx, who was merely a political architect for the elite, a favorite of the banking class, and an intellectual fraud.

here's a political cartoons from the 1910s era... it's telling a story that no one today would hardly believe: the titans of "capitalism" and "democracy" absolutely loved marx...

Image
ambi
 


Re: Total new person post--Identifying anarchism

Postby Francois Tremblay » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:36 am

The concept of no one owning the land or means of production is absurd, especially land. How are we supposed to live without having any rights over the land? Unless you're a primitivist, I don't see how that makes any sense.
Left-mutualist, atheist, childfree
http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Francois Tremblay
Zen Master
 
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 pm

Next

Return to Board index

Return to Anarchists and Anarchism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests